Saturday, September 23, 2017

September 9, 2017 draft tree for I-L233 "Western"

Click here to download the latest I-L233 tree.

This tree shows a new I-F25958.2 branch (part of I-A8462) and another I-Y4252* Big Y result for kit  474304. There are at least 6 Big Ys for I-L233 in progress and we expect more results very soon.

Click here to download our previous I-L233 tree from July 2017

Friday, July 28, 2017

July 2017 I-L160 draft tree

We now know that CTS1758 (also known as PF4091) is an important SNP immediately below PF4088. We have found several PF4088+ CTS1758- men from Big Ys and individual testing. CTS1758 is now on the FTDNA haplotree, and it's included in the new I2a-P37.2 SNP pack at

Click here to download our July 26, 2017 tree for I-L160.

Click here to the the post about our previous tree from June 2017.

Saturday, July 15, 2017

July 2017 I-L621 tree showing new I-CTS10228* branch

Click here to download our July 2, 2017 draft tree for I-L621

Click here for our previous tree from June 2017.

June 2017 draft tree for I-S2703 (part of I-L161 "Isles")

Click here to download our June 14, 2017 draft tree for I-S2703

I-S2703 is a major branch of I-L161 "Isles".

New in this update:
there is a second Big Y for the I-FGC8393 branch. The two men share 26 SNPs below S2742, but each has approximately 10 unique novel variants, meaning that their common ancestor probably lived more than 100 years ago. Their 111 Y-DNA STR markers are also quite different. They have ordered their YFull analysis and they should be shown in a final position on the YFull v5.06 tree, which will be released approximately 2 months from now.

The tree shows more SNPs highlighted in yellow, these SNPs are available at FTDNA

Click here to see our previous draft tree from May 2017, which includes a long description of all the branches

Wednesday, July 5, 2017

July 1, 2017 I-L233 draft tree

Two more Big Ys have been completed for I-L233. One of them shares a single novel variant with an earlier Big Y, and we now know a new branch of I-Y4252 called I-FGC56815. The FGC means Full Genomes Corp, and maybe someone from this branch has done a YElite test at Full Genomes Corp, or someone purchased a BAM analysis from FGC, or maybe FGC analyzed a public genome that belongs to this branch.

The second Big Y result doesn't share any novel variants below L233  and Y4252 with anyone else, except. We now know 6 named branches below I-Y452, and there are also seven unnamed branches that each contain only a single family at present. I-Y4252 contains thirteen known branches at this point, it had a very rapid expansion.

Click here to download the I-L233 draft tree from July 1, 2017

Click here for our earlier I-L233 tree from May, 2017.

Thursday, June 29, 2017

New I2a-P37.2 panel at

For several years has offered a very good I2a-M423 panel which covers almost every important SNP for I-L621, I-CTS10228 Dinaric, Disles, and I-L161 Isles. Today YSeq introduced a SNP panel that is for the I-M26 "Sardinian" branch, the I-L233 "Western" branch and the smaller branches like Alpine, Northern France, France etc. Here is the link: Of course, many members of the I-P37 project have already done Big Y tests, or extensive SNP testing and you don't need any new tests. But I recommend this SNP panel for many people in I-M26 "Sardinian" and I-L233 "Western". It's much more complete than the I2-P37 SNP pack at FTDNA. It's also cheaper ($88) but you will need to give a new cheek scrape DNA sample (there is a $5 kit fee) and you will not be able to add your YSeq results to your FTDNA page. 

I can also recommend this test to I-P37 men who have done tests at other companies and don't wish to order tests at FTDNA for whatever reason.

Please email or ask for specific advice here

Friday, June 9, 2017

June 8, 2017 Draft tree for I-L621

Click here to download the June 8, 2017 draft tree for I-L621

There are several interesting additions:

--Disles-A: Almost all I-L621 men are CTS10936+. There are a few families that are L621+ CTS10936-, and we call this branch Disles-A. The D means that it is very distantly related to the Dinaric branch, and the isles means that this branch is typical of the British Isles. We now have a second Big Y result for Disles-A, and we can now call this branch I-A17060

--Disles-B: we have discovered a man who is CTS10936+ but CTS4002- and these SNPs (and several others) are no longer equivalent. The man had only 37 STR markers, and we predicted that he belonged to the I-CTS10228 "Dinaric-North" group, but this prediction was incorrect.  He is an American with paternal ancestry from southwestern Germany. With 67 markers it's very easy to distinguish Dinaric (L621+ CTS10228+) from Disles (L621+ CTS10228-) because Dinaric has the very distinctive value DYS565=9

-Disles-B:  thanks to a new Big Y, we now have 17 SNPs which define the I-A16633 branch. I think most of the Disles men from Britain and Ireland will belong to this branch, but some of them may not share all of the 17 SNPs. The I-FGC20473 branch is much smaller

--I-CTS10228*: There are four known branches of the I-CTS10228 Dinaric branch, and for many years there was only one known man who was CTS10228+ but who didn't belong to any of the branches, this man has paternal ancestry from southeastern Poland. Now there is a second CTS10228+ A2512- Y4460- Z17855- S17250-, this man has paternal ancestry from Alsace (southwestern Germany/France border area, now part of France). The Polish-ancestry and Alsatian-ancestry man don't share any unique novel variants/SNPs. There are many SNPs listed as equivalent to CTS10228, and it's possible that the Alsatian-ancestry man is ancestral (negative) for some of these, he has submitted his BAM file to YFull and we will learn the answer soon. Like all other I-CTS10228 men, the Alsatian-ancestry man has the distinctive marker value DYS565=9

Click here for our I-L621 tree from early May, 2017

May 2017 Draft Tree for I-L233 "Western"

We have discovered a new branch called I-A16520, it is circled in red on the tree. The tree below is dated May 18, 2017.

I expect that a new Big Y will be completed very soon. We already know the man tested belongs I-A8462, and maybe he will belong to the I-A16520 branch. There are two other interesting Big Ys for I-L233 that were ordered recently.

Click here to see the February, 2017 tree for I-L233.

Thursday, May 4, 2017

May 2017 Draft Trees for I-L621 and I-S17250

The I-L621 tree is now quite large and we have created a new tree for the major I-S17250 branch.

The vast majority of men in of I-L621 belong to the very large I-CTS10228 haplogroup which is one of the most common haplogroups in Eastern and Central Europe. This I-CTS10228 haplogroup is nicknamed "Dinaric", and it has a common ancestor who lived approximately 2200 years ago according to's calculations based on more than 75 Big Y BAM files.

But there are some L621+ men who are CTS10228- and these men are shown at the top of the I-L161 tree in the Disles branches. These men mostly have ancestry from Britain and Ireland, and a few from Poland and Germany. Two Big Ys are in progress for Disles, and I expect that soon we will learn about new SNPs and we be able to place most known Disles men into a well defined branch.

I think these trees show that I-S17250 is a very major part of the I-CTS10228 haplogroup. I-S17250 includes all of Dinaric-South and a large part of Dinaric-North. The Dinaric-South group is the same thing as the I-PF908 haplogroup. As described earlier (click here), PF908 is not tested very efficiently by Big Ys, but the evidence from Big Ys and from individual PH908 tests at shows that PF908+ is exactly equivalent to Dinaric-South membership (CTS10228+ S17250+ with STR marker DYS448=19)

The I-S17250 tree shows 18 immediate daughter branches of I-PF908, a very rapid star-like expansion at the earliest stages of the Dinaric-South group. There are also many branches of I-S17250 that are part of Dinaric-North, men in these branches are PF908- and have STR marker DYS448=20.

More than 100 Big Ys have been completed for I-CTS10228, and there have been some additional Y chromosome sequences from scientific studies, and many people have tested individual SNPs or SNP packs or panels, and almost all I-CTS10228 men belong to one of four fundamental branches:
I-S17250 (called I-Y3548 on the FTDNA haplotree)

In fact there is still only one known man who is CTS10228+ S17250- Y4460- Z17855- A2512-, he has paternal ancestry from southeastern Poland.

A Big Y is in progress for a likely CTS10228+ man who has 111 markers somewhat distant from the typical I-CTS10228 values, we will see if he is a second CTS10228+ S17250- Y4460- Z17855- A2512- man.

The I-L621 tree also shows a new branch called I-A14877, part of I-A2512. This new branch contains a man from Greece, as well as a large family from New Mexico, USA. These men are very likely descended from a man named Juan Griego who was born in Greece and who came to New Mexico with the first Spanish expedition in 1598. In fact the entire I-A2512 branch contains only Greek families, the New Mexico families, an old Eastern European Jewish branch (I-A11372), and one puzzling result: an anonymous man from the Chuvash Republic, Russian Federation who was part of a scientific study. The Chuvash man is A7134+ meaning he is distantly related to the New Mexico/Greek I-A14877 branch, and much more distantly related to the Jewish and other Greek branches. There are a few Greek men in our project who belong to I-A2512 and who have not done Big Ys. If these men do Big Ys, I think we will learn about several new branches of I-A2512 and many new SNPs in these branches.

Click here to download a pdf version of the May 2017 haplogroup tree for I-L621.

Click here to download a pdf version of the May 2017 haplogroup tree for I-S17250.

Click here for our earlier I-L621 tree from February 2017.

Update May 17, 2017: The Big Y has been completed, and we now have a second CTS10228+ S17250- Y4460- Z17855- A2512-. One man has paternal ancestry from Alsace (Germany/France border region) and the other has paternal ancestry from southeastern Poland. The two men don't share any novel variants with each other. The man with Alsace ancestry is CTS10228+ and derived for many equivalent SNPs, but some equivalent SNPs were not listed in his Big Y VCF file. We will send his BAM file to YFull for analysis.

Tuesday, May 2, 2017

May 2017 draft trees for I-L161 and I-S2703

The I-L161 tree is now quite large and we have created a new tree for the major I-S2703 branch.

As a reminder, I-L161 is a major branch of I-P37, and many years ago Ken Nordtvedt gave this branch the nickname "Isles" because it is especially characteristic of Great Britain and Ireland. But we always knew that there were a few I-L161 men in continental Europe. Thanks to several Big Ys, we know that there are two fundamental branches of I-L161:
I-Y13338 which includes men with paternal ancestry from Thrace (Bulgaria/European Turkey), Germany, Poland, Cuba, and southern Iraq. These men were part of Ken's Isles-B cluster
I-S2639, which is much larger and includes all the I-L161 men with ancestry from Britain and Ireland, and it also includes a few men with German, Polish and French-Canadian ancestry. All of Ken's Isles-A, Isles-C and Isles-D clusters belong to I-S2639, and most of his Isles-B cluster also belongs to I-S2639. Probably the name "Isles" is best applied to I-S2639, not I-L161 as a whole.

There are many branches of I-S2639 and they are all found in Britain and Ireland, the fundamental branches are:
I-Y12072 which includes Isles-A (I-PF4135) and relatives, strictly British/Irish according to current knowledge
I-L1498, subbranch I-A1150, includes Isles-B3, Isles-B5 and others in Isles-B, strictly British/Irish according to current knowledge
I-L1498, subbranch I-A10028, a very rare branch with only two known families, one from Scotland or northern England, the other is likely from Ireland. These families had been placed in Isles-B
I-L1498, subbranch I-S2703. This is the largest branch by far and includes all of Isles-C and Isles-D, Isles-B1 and Isles-B4, and others in Isles-B.

As far as we know, the continental European ancestry men in I-S2639 all belong to rather downstream branches of I-S2703 that are almost exclusively British and Irish, for example there are some French Canadian men who belong to the Isles-D2 branch which has a estimated common ancestor who lived 1750 years ago, and Isles-D2 is overwhelmingly Irish and British. And Isles-D2 itself is closely related to other strictly Irish/British branches like Isles-C and others. (Isles-D2 is known by several different names: I-Y4665, I-Y4660 etc).

Based on more than 40 Big Ys, calculates that I-S2639 had a common ancestor who lived approximately 6700 years ago, with a relatively strong expansion at the earliest period. Given all of this evidence, I think this is strong evidence that the common ancestor of I-S2639 dates from approximately the initial arrival of I-S2639 in the British Isles, and evidence that I-S2639 has had a continuous presence in the British Isles for the last 6700 years. I don't know of any other Y-DNA haplogroup that might have been in Britain and Ireland for such a long period. (**see update at bottom of this post)

Here are some of the major updates to the I-L161 tree:
We have done some analysis of the BAM file for the I-Y13338 man from southern Iraq and he is ancestral for Y13331 and Y13335. He is not yet on the YFull tree. At this point there are no other known members of his branch and no likely candidates, we will keep looking. Despite these two SNP differences,  he is a typical member of I-Y13338. The Polish/German branch is slightly more closely related to the Thracian branch, and the Iraq branch more distant, but all three known branches diverged at approximately the same time, around 4000 years ago.

The I-L161 tree also shows some updates to the I-Y12072 section. From BAM files we now know that Y14359 and Y13904 are currently equivalent SNPs, and both are only found in the Driscoll family, and in extremely closely related men who probably has a Driscoll ancestor a few hundred years ago. There are now three fundamental branches of I-PF4135 (Isles-A), and all three branches have representation in County Cork, Ireland, which suggests a possible "Out of Cork" expansion of this group 1000+ years ago, which reached Scotland, England and the Isle of Man.

Click here to download a pdf version of the May 2017 draft tree for I-L161

We have now placed I-S2703 in a tree of its own for improved legibility.
We continue to learn more about the large Isles-C (I-Y5450) and Isles-D2 (I-Y4665) branches. Each of these branches has a large presence in central-western Ireland, and maybe had a rapid expansion to other parts of Britain and Ireland over 1,000 years ago. All the other branches on the I-S2703 tree are less common.

Click here to download a pdf version of the May 2017 draft tree for I-S2703
Click here for our earlier tree from February 2017

Update May 11, 2017: Ken Nordvedt had another group that he nicknamed "Isles": I-M284 which is part of I-M223 (I-M223 is currently called I2a2a at the ISOGG tree). When I look at the tree for I-M284 (click here) I see that almost all of I-M284 belongs to I-L1195 which has a MRCA of 5600 years ago. I think I-L1195 also has good evidence for a continuous presence in Britain and Ireland for approximately 5600 years. But is I-M284 as a whole of British and Irish origin? It seems possible, and I-M284 has a MRCA of 7200 years ago.

Wednesday, January 18, 2017

January 2017 draft tree for I-Y11222

Click here for the January 2017 draft tree for I-Y11222

I-Y11222 is a major branch of I-M26, click here for more explanation and our earlier Y11222 tree.

The big news on this tree is a second big Y for the DYS413=19-22 cluster. This is a large group that is mostly found in Britain and which has a number of marker values that are not found in other I-M26 branches. Thanks to this second Big Y (kit N90359) we can now call this branch I-A14285. We recommend that all members of this group test A14825 at, the price is $17.50 and there is a one time DNA kit fee of $5 for your first test at YSeq. As always, please contact for more specific recommendations, and please email me when you place the order and when you receive results because I will not be informed by YSeq.

Here is the link to order A14825 at :

Friday, January 6, 2017

link to December 2016 draft tree for I-L621

Click here for the December 2016 draft tree for I-L621

Click here for an earlier version of the tree from August 2016

December 2016 Tree for I-L161

Click here for the latest draft tree for the I-L161 "Isles" haplogroup.
To see a previous version, click here for my post from July 2016.

Towards the bottom of the tree you can see an important new branch. There is a new Big Y result for kit 23143 who has likely English paternal ancestry. He was called "Isles-A cousin" because his STR markers are similar to the Isles-A group. But kit 23143 was known to be Y12072+ and PF4135- and the Isles-A people are Y12072+ PF4135+. Thanks to his Big Y, we now know that 20 SNPs are equivalent to Y12072 and 14 are equivalent to PF4135, meaning that 23143's common ancestor with the Isles-A group was thousands of years ago.

There are no known men with markers very similar to 23143,  but there is another man who is Y12072+ and PF4135- and I hope to organize a Big Y for him eventually.

The new tree shows more details in the Isles-A branch including the new SNPs that have been found in the "Driscoll" branch.
The tree also shows new branches in Isles-C and Isles-D:
the I-A12374 branch is part of Isles-C1
the I-FGC14463 branch is part of Isles-C2
the I-Y5280 and more specific I-A10741 branch are part of Isles-D2.
Many people have already tested some of these SNPs at

There are some interesting Big Ys in progress:
two for Isles-A (one is very close the Driscoll family, and another is not close to any other Isles-A family)
Kit 206151 is a man from southern Iraq who likely belongs to I-Y13331 branch

The YFull tree has also been updated to v5.01 and it now shows the major I-A10028 branch, but the YFull tree is not as complete as our draft tree. The YFull tree calculates common ancestor dates based on unique novel variants found in each result. You can see that I-L161 contains two fundamental branches: I-Y13331 and I-S2639 and the common ancestor is estimated to have lived 7000 years ago. The I-Y13331 branch is rare and has been found in Germany, Poland, Bulgaria and southern Iraq. The people in I-Y13331 were part of Ken Nordtvedt's Isles-B group.

The I-S2639 branch has a common ancestor estimated to have lived 6700 years ago and it has several major branches that began expansions thousands of years ago:
I-S2703 (I-Y3749) is a large branch and includes all of Ken Nordtvedt's Isles-C and Isles-D groups and some of his Isles-B group. These groups are overwhelmingly British and Irish but there are a few German and Polish families who likely belong to the downstream I-S2742 (I-Y14338) branch. One of our project's next goals is to characterize these families better. There are also some Puerto Rican and French Canadian men who belong to very downstream branches of Isles-C and Isles-D and likely have last 2000-400 year ancestry from the British Isles.
I-A1150 (I-Y12993) is an uncommon group only known from Britain and Ireland. These branches were all part of Ken Nordvedt's Isles-B group. Several results on shown on our draft tree but they have not been submitted to YFull.
I-A10028 is known from only two families from Scotland and Ireland, these were  part of Ken Nordtvedt's Isles-B group
I-Y12072 includes the strictly British/Irish Isles-A group and the Isles-A cousins as described above.

The I-L161 tree is well known now, and in my opinion it's very strong evidence for a continuous presence of I-S2639 branch in Britain and Ireland for approximately 6700 years or more. Before Big Y testing we couldn't be sure: maybe Isles-A represented one migration to the British Isles, maybe IslesC/D came in a second migration thousands of years later. We have seen this in other haplogroups: some branches of I-M26 have been in Britain/Ireland for 4,500+ years and others arrived in the last 2,000 years. But now we see that all of the oldest branches of I-S2639 are found in Britain and Ireland.

Tuesday, January 3, 2017

I-L1294 "France" (DYS388=9) update:

A fourth Big Y has been completed for the I-L1294 "France" haplogroup. This haplogroup is rare but characteristic of France. I-L1294 men have also found in Germany, Great Britain and Catalonia (Spain). The I-L1294 "France" haplogroup has some very distinctive marker values (DYS388=9 and DYS454=12). 

Four Big Ys have now been completed for I-L1294.

The Big Y results show that three Americans with Scottish or English ancestry share a common ancestor who lived approximately 1100 years ago, and they also share approximately 27 SNPs not found in the fourth man, who is an American with likely French paternal ancestry.The common ancestor of all four men lived over 4100 years ago. 

One of the SNPs shared by the three British ancestry men is L1295 and it is available at FTDNA for $39. I have rearranged the sections of our colorized results page to make clear who is known to be L1295+, who is known to be L1295- and who needs to test L1295

The common ancestor of all three I-L1295 men lived approximately 1100 years ago. However two of the men share another SNP meaning that they have a slightly more recent common ancestor. This SNP is called A13906 and it is available at for $17.50

You can see the I-L1294 and I-L1295 "France" groups at the top of the YFull I-P37 tree:  (YFull uses the names I-Y21979 and I-Y21980 for these groups).