Friday, September 12, 2014

The Disles group is complex

The "Disles" group is rare. We give it the nickname Disles because it is related to the very common Dinaric group but it is found very often in the British Isles while the Dinaric group is usually in Eastern and Central Europe. (Disles= D for Dinaric + isles for British Isles).

And there are some important STR marker differences between Dinaric and Disles. The most important is that Dinaric has the rare value DYS565=9, while Disles has DYS565=11 like many other haplogroups.

And now we discovering more SNPs and learning of SNP differences between Dinaric and Disles. For example all Dinarics are CTS5966+ and CTS10228+ while Disles people so far are negative (ancestral) for these two SNPs.

One Disles man did the Geno 2.0 test and the Big Y test earlier this year (kit N52277 who is Australian with British paternal ancestry). He is L621+ but CTS4022- CTS10936- CTS11768- L147- CTS5966- CTS4002- (see figure 1 below). Our working assumption was that all Disles men would have the same results.

But in August another Disles man (kit N113464 who is American with likely paternal ancestry) did the Big Y test, and he is L621+ and CTS4022+ CTS10936+  CTS11768+ L147- CTS5966- CTS4002-. There is another man with paternal ancestry from Poland who has exactly the same SNP results and we have been calling him a "Dinaric cousin". The American and the Polish man are not closely related becaue they have 67 markers quite different from each other.

So now we have two groups of Disles which we are calling Disles B (a more recent common ancestor with the Dinaric group) and Disles A (a more distant common ancestor with the Dinaric group).

We are recommending that all Disles people do additional testing to determine which Disles group they belong to.
--the cheapest test we are recommending is CTS10936 which costs $39 at Family Tree DNA.
--but, it's possible that some Disles people might have differences at CTS4002 or CTS11768 or other SNPs (see Figure 3 below). If you are interested we recommend the Geno 2.0 test which includes all the SNPs shown on the tree, it is currently $159.95 plus $9.95 shipping to the US (higher to other countries):
click to buy Geno 2.0

And the best test is the expensive Big Y or other "full Y chromosome" sequencing.

Please let me know if you have questions at and please inform me if you order one of these tests

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