The difference between dates of nodes and dates of clade expansions in the Y chromosome tree

People used to ask Ken Nordtvedt all the time "How old is I-L233 'Western'" (for example). And Ken  made the point that there were two different ages to consider:
1) when did the  most recent common ancestor of I-L223 "Western" and its sister clade I-L1287* "Alpine" live?
2) when did the most recent common ancestor of all living I-L233 'Western' men live?

I think usually people were interested in question 1) but Ken was more interested in 2).  He made the point that for all of human history almost every male line died out/daughtered out, and human populations stayed nearly the same, but at some point in the last few thousand years, populations started to increase continuously up to the present. For some Y-DNA haplogroups (I-M26 "Sardinian") this expansion started 8,000+ years ago, but for others it was much more recent (maybe the last 2,500 years for I-L233 for example).

Ken had some useful trees on his website that showed this difference with what he called arrowheads indicating the start of the expansion ---->
Ken's tree from 2011

I tried to make his trees easier to interpret with tree drawings like these:
my blog in 2011 from wayback machine

Recently several papers have been published making Ken's point about very few surviving male lineages until recent expansions, see Dienekes' summary of here: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2015/05/more-y-chromosome-super-fathers.html (This paper talks about recent superfathers and starlike expansion in Europe for I1, R1a and R1b, and long branches with deep-rooting nodes" for E1b-M35, G2a-L31, I2-P215, J2-M172, L-M11 and T-M70. Of course there are recent superfathers and starlike expansion in some branches of I2, for example for I-L233 "Western" and I-CTS10228 "Dinaric".

And I like this paper's Fig 1 which uses triangles to show the recent expansions:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2015/03/bottleneck-in-human-y-chromosomes-in.html

I-L621 Draft Tree, April 2015

L-161 Draft Tree, April 2015

I-CTS10228 "Dinaric" samples in Estonian Biocentre Data

The Estonian Biocentre released 307 Y chromosome sequences as mentioned in Dienekes' blog.

The sequences are from all over the world and especially from places not covered in the 1000 Genomes Project, for example, Eastern Europe. You can see a summary of the samples by clicking Y_data_metainfo.xlsx which is the file at the bottom of this directory

There are 13 samples in haplogroup I: 5 samples listed as I1 (from Russia(2), Belarus, Ukraine, and from an Aboriginal Australian). There is one sample listed as I3 from the country of Georgia. There were seven samples listed as I2a, and they all belong to CTS10228 "Dinaric":

The I-P37 project obtained the sequences for the seven I2a samples and compared them to Big Y results and we are in the process of comparing them to the samples from the Hallast study.

See the YFull tree
our most recent I-L621 tree
and the STR results page of the I-P37 project

Estonian Biocenter samples #18357 & 18359 from Belarus have CTS10228>Y4460>Y3118>Y5598>CTS5779
Two kits in the I2a Project have this result, and when we compared these four I-CTS5779 sequences, we found no shared SNPs below CTS5779.

Samples #18429 from Bosnia and #20364 from Herzegovina have CTS10228>S17250*. They share some novel variants with each other that were not tested in Big Ys. There are several Big Y results in this I-S17250* group, but we found no shared SNPs below S17250.

Sample #18440 from Russia (Chuvash) has a I-CTS10228* result. There are only two known I-CTS10228* people in the I-P37 project, one is from Poland and the other belongs to the "Jewish Dinaric cluster". Sample 18440 shares two novel variants with the person in the Jewish Dinaric cluster. The positions (Chr Y: 13203040 and 9853064) are close to the centromere and it may be difficult to design primers to test these SNPs individually. We have asked a related Jewish Dinaric cluster member to test 13203040 at YSeq.net

Sample #21452 from Russia (Vepsas ethnic group, from north of St. Petersburg) has CTS10228>Y4460* (ie. Y3118- S8201-). A Big Y result (ancestry Riga, 1600s) shares two positions with 21452: 21835651 and 22669350. Another shared NV is at 22271330, but it is inside the 125bp repeat region.

Sample #21481 from Lithuania has CTS10228>Y4460>Y3118*  (ie. Y5598-) result. There are three Big Y results in I-Y3118* but we found no additional shared novel variants.

Tree for I-L161 "Isles"

We have several Big Y tests in progress, so I hope we have more updates to this tree soon.

Hint: sometimes it's hard to see the details on this tree. It might be best to save this tree to your computer/device, and then open the tree.

30 Jan 2015: Edited to add:
 The tree above includes Big Y results for several L161+ L1498+ people and the branch at the bottom has three Big Y results for L161+ PF4135+ people. (This tree has a branch at the top for L161+ L1498- L161- but no Big Ys for this group are included).

Tree for I-L621

My New Year's resolution is to post results here promptly. But maybe these trees will contain some obvious errors, so please add a comment or email berniecullen@gmail.com if you see some mistakes. We borrowed the template for this tree from another site, I think an I-M223 site.

December 2014 Tree for I-P37

This tree is dated 2014-11-25c

There are also several changes from the 2014-11-05 tree which you can still see in an earlier post.