Click here to download our 2018-12-01 tree for I-Y4460
This update shows a new I-Y4460* result, this is the fourth fundamental branch of I-Y4460. This family has been in Syria since the 17th century, and they believe their ancestor was from modern Bosnia and Herzegovina, he came to Syria as a high official in the Ottoman empire.
Click here to find our previous tree for I-Y4460
Click here to find a brief description of the Y4460 haplogroup
Mr Cullen, this Syrian man is negative for the three known Y4460 branches. Can you tell me how do you know that he belongs to some fourth branch and not to the primary Y4460 lineage? Is there an additional test that he could do?
ReplyDeleteWhat is your definition of "primary Y4460 lineage"? I will answer your question soon.
ReplyDeleteThe lineage (or clade) from which all other subclades sprung. Perhaps the better formulation would be that he is "exclusively" Y4460.
ReplyDeleteThe common ancestor of I-Y4460 lived approximately 2200 years ago, according to YFull's calculation. This common ancestor is the most recent man who was exclusively Y4460+. The Y chromosome mutates frequently, so all modern men who are Y4460+ also have several additional mutations. Many modern Y4460+ men are also Y3118+ as shown on this tree, other modern Y4460+ men are Y70430+.
ReplyDeleteThe Syrian man is Y4460+ but Y3118- Y70430- and negative for all the other SNPs shown on this tree. (we couldn't determine his result for B57 because the Big Y test doesn't usually report a result for B57, probably he is B57-).
But the Syrian man has approximately 10 mutations that occurred more recently than Y4460. These mutations have SNP names, but they aren't shown on the tree for reasons of space and also for privacy: some of the mutations are very recent and specific to his immediate family. We don't know which of the 10 mutations are old and which are recent. Eventually we will find another Y4460+ result who shares one or more of these 10 mutation. Then we will know that the shared mutations are old, and we will add a new named branch to the tree.
Thank you. So, in a nutshell - there are no exclusively Y4460+ men today. The Syrian man has his own, independent lineage/branch which could be (is?) older that the other Y4460 branches, but, for now, you cannot tell if is the case. Is that right?
DeleteAll of these branches are the same age. The tree shows that I-Y4460 split simultaneously into four branches. More or less, this means that the man who was the MRCA of I-Y4460 had four sons who each had Y-DNA lineages that have survived until the present day. Because the resolution of the Big Y test is not high enough to detect SNPs at every generation, it's possible that the I-Y4460 ancestor only had two sons with surviving lineages, and some of these sons had multiple surviving lineages of their own. In any case, it was a very successful family, and it lived 2200 years ago according to YFull's calculation.
ReplyDeleteAnd probably all four lineages shown on the tree have been continuously expanding over the last 2200 years. This has been a period of high survival of paternal lines and population expansion. This is most obvious with the I-B57 branch. But probably the I-Y70430 branch and the new I-Y4460* branch have also been expanding, and eventually we will find additional samples to show this.
Thanks. Best wishes.
ReplyDelete